Kheba Dorje

Dorje: Can you share a few words about the work you are doing as an artist these days?

Kheba Dorje: Although we refer to ourselves as artists in general, I specialize in lhabri (painting). I started learning many years ago.

Q: What kind of artwork have you created, and where? Do you have any memories of your work?

A: I should begin with my teacher, Uncle Jimmy. I started learning from him in 2031 BS and completed the classes in 2032 BS. We didn’t go through extensive thigpe classes, as they would have taken 5-6 years. Instead, we focused on simple thigpe of the Buddha and various coloring techniques. After about fifteen months, four of us came down to Kathmandu. Though Uncle Jimmy said we were the chosen ones, the first monastery we worked on was Mani Dhungyur Gonpa in Sermathang (Hyolmo), where all of his students participated. I believe it’s still there, isn’t it?

Dorje: Hm, the temple is still there. It was renovated, but the original wall paintings no longer exist.

Kheba Dorje: I didn’t visit it this time. That was where we first worked after learning how to paint.

Q: Did you learn in Kathmandu or in the village?

A: I learned in the village. We used to learn painting in the largest house, which also housed the agricultural development bank. It was destroyed during the earthquake. There were about 15-16 students. Those who lived nearby would attend classes in the morning and return home after, while those from Choba stayed in the big house.

Q: Where did Uncle Jimmy learn to paint?

A: His teacher was Meme Khejung, originally from Chimi, and the uncle of Meme Jamyang. Later, the completion of his studies was under Kheba Wangdi, Kanchha Lama’s father.

Q: What courses did you take with Meme Jimmy?

A: The most important one was painting. He was very open-minded (and I’m not praising him just because he was my teacher). He shared his knowledge about various fields of kheba (expertise), which included stonework, wall building, woodwork, basket weaving, painting, and more. He was the best wall builder in the area, and he built the walls of his own house. He also developed models for the dramnyen (a traditional lute) and made better masks than others. His paintings were of very high quality because he wanted to set an example for us. He didn’t want his students to fall behind. Kheba Legshey, a Tibetan painter in Kathmandu, made a set of two exceptional shitro thangkas—one peaceful and one wrathful—for Meme Nho Babu’s place in Tarkegyang. Uncle Jimmy borrowed them to show us and told us that Kheba Legshey said that if we could achieve a similar level of quality, we would be on the right track. We then made a set ourselves, and when we finished, Uncle Jimmy gave us certificates, saying we were ready to go out and work on our own. Those two shitro thangkas were among the best in the region, and he used them to teach us.

Q: Were there other teachers available to teach you, or was he the only master painter around?

A: To help us explore painting further, he tried twice to bring Kheba Legshey, a Tibetan from Kathmandu, but it didn’t work out. Instead, he brought those thangkas for us. He worked hard to generate resources and encouraged four of us to paint four complete sets from start to finish. When we completed them, he encouraged us to venture out on our own. Aside from him, there was also a lama named Meme Gomchen, who lived in Melamchim. Did you ever meet him?

Dorje: I don’t think I did.

Kheba Dorje: He was a lama of chöd (T. gcod), traveling around and visiting the twenty-one graveyards.

Q: My experience with Meme Jimmy was that he maintained good relationships with lamas.

A: He respected lamas a lot. He said he had learned astrology from Bod Meme. We learned some basic astrology as well, but after coming to Kathmandu, I never had the time to study it more. Later, he told us that Bod Meme and we were from the same clan and that he was from Padap. At the time, no one knew much about Bod Meme, except for his name. Meme Jimmy always maintained good relationships with lamas.

Q: I’ve heard that he had a good relationship with HH Chatral Rinpoche. Do you know anything about that?

A: Yes, Meme Jimmy told us that during the empowerment ceremony of Tashi Sum in Neding, which was conducted in the presence of Chatral Rinpoche, he handled all the managerial work, including acting as a guide for Rinpoche.

Q: Was there anything you didn’t learn from him that you regret not knowing later?

A: About four years ago, when he could no longer see, I visited him and spent about four hours talking with him. I asked him about some basic things. I thought he might live for a few more years, as his body was strong and his mind sharp, even though he couldn’t see. I wasn’t aware of everything he knew, and during that visit, I learned that he knew how to keep away crows and wild boars—basically, any animals. He would blow mantras on the land to keep them away. I believe he learned this from Meme Gomchen. I regret not learning that. But now, since he’s no longer with us, there’s no point in having regrets.

Q: Meme Jimmy had his teachers, who must have had their own teachers as well. The knowledge of painting was passed down through a chain of masters. How do you view this transmission of knowledge? Has it evolved over the decades and centuries, or has it deteriorated?

A: It has developed a lot, but the people from the past were much more hardworking. They always had something to work on from dawn till dusk. When copying a pecha (religious text), precise writing was crucial, and paintings had to be done in the morning under dim lamps. They put a lot of hard work into it. Nowadays, modern technology makes things easier. You don’t have to scale the painting by hand—you can simply photocopy it. You can photocopy a book or a thigpe (sample painting) as well.

Q: I’ve heard from many painters that artists from Hyolmo have a good reputation in the market. Is that true?

A: Yes, you could say that. I may be the first Hyolmo painter to travel to Kham in Tibet to paint 1,000 Buddha statues. Those statues were delivered from Delhi, as Patan in Kathmandu didn’t have the high-quality production it has today. I helped buy 1,000 eight-inch tall Buddha statues in Delhi and sent them to Lhasa via Kathmandu. They were machine-made. We also sent golden leaves for the finishing work. Since they couldn’t do it themselves, I was asked to travel there. I stayed for two and a half months and worked in a couple of monasteries. Since then, many Hyolmo artists have traveled to Kham, Ladakh, and even Arunachal, Himachal, and Sikkim. I’ve heard of many Hyolmo painters being invited to those places, which makes us proud. I’ve never heard of any of us traveling to Bhutan, maybe because they have their own painters. But Hyolmo artists are known in these places. Once, Thrangu Rinpoche told me, “You, Hyolmo people, are doing well. You are clean, Dharma-minded, and also artists.” Many Hyolmo monks used to stay at Thrangu Rinpoche’s Gonpa, and Uncle Babu from Sermathang, who passed away, used to work for the monastery. Rinpoche mentioned that Hyolmo people are the best artists among the various communities of Nepal.

Dorje: Thank you, Uncle. Thugjeche.